#YesAllWomen

#YesAllWomen

Because all women have walked to their car in the dark, keys clutched tight in hand, one poking out between two fingers.

Because when I go out to bars or clubs, I have to think about whether what I’m wearing is too suggestive, instead of putting on whatever I please.

Because I feel the need to apologize when I’m not wearing makeup or my hair hasn’t been washed, or when I’m generally looking anything other than flawless.

Because there was nothing I could do about the man who touched me inappropriately in the middle of Gillette Stadium as I waited for my then-boyfriend to come out of the bathroom. IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STADIUM.

Because there was also nothing I could do when a man touched me inappropriately in the middle of a crowded street, his arm around his girlfriend. Because retaliating in the way I wanted to would have let to assault charges and jail – for me, not for him.

Because my then-boyfriend laughed when two men came up to me in a bar, asking, “Can we just look at your girlfriend for a second?” as if I was his property, something to be admired, not even a human being with thoughts and feelings.

Because I have to worry about low-cut tops or too-short dresses that aren’t “work appropriate,” and men don’t.

Because at family get-togethers, women are asked about weddings or babies far more often than they’re asked about career goals or major life achievements.

Because “thigh gaps,” thinspo blogs, airbrushing, plastic surgery, tabloid magazines, porn, Sports Illustrated swimsuit issues and breastaurants.

Because “She’s someone’s sister, mother, daughter, aunt, cousin, wife, girlfriend, lover, friend,” isn’t the right answer. “She’s a human being” is.

Because we get asked, “Why not?” and told, “You’ll change your mind,” if we say we don’t want to have children.

Because getting cat-called at while walking down the street at 8 a.m. is not a rare occurrence.

Because women are taught how to avoid being assaulted or harassed, rather than men being taught how to treat others with respect.

Because my ex-boyfriend described me as “the only smart girl he’d ever met” – and that’s why he had decided to date me, instead of just sleeping with me and tossing me aside with the other girls. Because he was surprised that I am smart.

Because we say, “I’m sorry” before saying we’re not interested.

Because “I have a boyfriend” is more effective than “I’m not interested.”

Because we are taught to keep an eye on our drink so no one drugs it.

Because we are so often not taken seriously when we choose to speak out, so millions of sexual assaults go unreported.

Because “feminism” is a dirty word.

Because when a woman is in an abusive relationship, people ask, “Why did you stay with him?”

Because a woman’s right to choose whether or not to be a mother is debated in courtrooms across the country, but a man can walk away from fatherhood anytime he chooses.

Because a smile is not an invitation.

Because buying me a drink does not create an obligation for me to sleep with you, or even talk to you beyond a polite “Thank you.”

Because my “no” should not result in a murderous rampage.

Because every single woman you have ever met – yes, every single woman – has been sexually harassed or abused.

Because you are not entitled to my body. Because my worth has nothing to do with how much I am physically desired by men.

Because not all men harass, abuse and mistreat women – but because of the ones that do, we live in fear.

Because I was afraid of writing this.

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281 comments

  1. Thank you for writing this, #YesAllWomen is an important tag and I think that it should be a platform for discussion and continue to exist past it’s conception out of violence.

    Liked by 3 people

  2. It’s good that you did write this. I disagree only on a few points. There were things you could have done. Don’t fear assault charges, self-defense applies more often than you think. Never take that crap from anyone. Also, men don’t wear low cut tops at work, so your point? Also, men are taught to treat women with respect, only to be derided for it as it somehow makes women feel weak. Some men also don’t listen. As for a woman’s right to choose, some see it as infantcide. Those who do see no problem with putting a child up for adoption. Men who walk away from fatherhood are rightfully reviled. In most circles I’ve traveled, they are held only one degree higher than pedophiles. In custody battles, women have the advantage.
    I do agree with the rest, a smile is not an invitation. Clothing choices are not consent. The media needs to quit oversexualizing. Women are intelligent. Some people need to take a “no”. All forms of assault need to be taken seriously, and as rough as you have it, some men are sexually abused and are taken even less seriously as many believe it doesn’t happen. Obligations cannot be bought, favor is to be bestowed willingly at the discretion of the one who gives it. No one is entitled to any body but their own.
    I speak up, because I am a man who spent a year living under the fear of sodomy as part of a forced initiation ritual that a high school wrestling team had. And while I avoided that fate, I was assaulted nonsexually by the team captain, his hands closing off my air supply while I fought back.
    As well intentioned as #YesAllWomen is, it only perpetuates the same sad stereotype that men are aggressors and women are prey. This only causes the problem to continue. We need to stop focusing on gender and stop all assault on all people. Then, and only then, can equality be achieved.
    #YesAllPeople
    Because you’d be shocked to learn the fears men face too.

    Liked by 10 people

    1. Thanks for your feedback. I agree with you on many points, and just want to say I’m not trying to perpetuate the stereotype that men are aggressors and women are prey, but the fact that men like the ones I’ve described here still exist and still prey on women perpetuates that stereotype, as I mentioned in the second-to-last line. I agree that we do need to work toward stopping assault on people, and I thank you for sharing your story.

      Liked by 7 people

      1. There are two dialogues here:
        A. When men and women find the time to talk to each other rationally, and
        B. When men keep going on automatic pilot in dialogues with their bodies (and women bear the consequences).

        There is a reason why I can predict (with an incredibly high degree of probability) that the next time we hear another breaking news of a killing spree, it will turn out that the killer is a young man in his 20s.

        “Because this is what teenagers are, what men are, when they’re 20. They’re drunk on testosterone, for a long time; it takes a huge amount of effort just NOT to act your [imagined] behaviour of wanting to be with I don’t know what female that you find attractive. Let’s remember that in Islam they think that this is so strong they need to cover the women; other religions as well have these taboos placed on what women who are menstruating can do. Let’s remember that. Why?

        Because people just think the behaviour of young men on, acting on, testosterone, cannot be explained rationally, and cannot be controlled rationally. Now, is this a valid position? I don’t know.”

        In case you find the above intriguing, there’s more at “http://kaizenideas.wordpress.com/2014/05/29/dialogue-with-a-lonely-extrovert/”

        Like

    2. Wow! There’s WAY TOO MUCH TRUTH in this article! This one should be submitted to some magazines for publication! Love it. Way to go!!!!

      Like

  3. You have so easily woven into words what every, or at least most women think. Some unfortunately fall prey to the stereotypes set by society and fail to break the walls that surround them. Brilliantly expressed!

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Because women are statistically less likely to be violently assaulted in public than men

    Because when I go out to bars or clubs I have to take responsibility for the messages I am sending out, like a proper grown up, but I wish I didn’t have to.

    Because modern, first-world, post-feminist women are so unbelievably shallow and vain and so competitive when it comes to self-objectification that I actually feel the need to apologize when I’m not wearing makeup or my hair hasn’t been washed, or when I’m generally looking anything other than flawless.

    Because there was nothing I could do about the man who touched me inappropriately in the middle of Gillette Stadium as I waited for my then-boyfriend to come out of the bathroom. IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STADIUM….. except take his picture with a cell phone and call security/ the police. As a woman I will get taken a lot more seriously than a man reporting the same thing.

    Because I wanted to retaliate to some other douche bag in a way that would have let to assault charges and jail for me, but then I thought better of it.

    Because I chose a boyfriend who treats me like an object – I guess wearing all that make up and low cut tops all the time probably helped to give him that attitude.

    Because I wish I could get away with wearing low-cut tops or too-short dresses that aren’t “work appropriate,” and it annoys me that men are sensible enough to not show off their manly chests and muscly legs at work, because they accept that it’s supposed to be WORK and not a meat market.

    Because at family get-togethers, women are asked about weddings or babies far more often than they’re asked about career goals or major life achievements… and men are never asked about sports or engines or – oh wait, yes they are.

    Because millions of women are so shallow and vain they choose to buy magazines all about “thigh gaps,” thinspo blogs, airbrushing, plastic surgery, tabloid magazines, …….. because some women earn money in porn, Sports Illustrated swimsuit issues and breastaurants, which is a great way to pay for a college education which is not really available to men.

    Because “She’s someone’s sister, mother, daughter, aunt, cousin, wife, girlfriend, lover, friend,” isn’t the right answer. “She’s an alien who arrived in a spaceship and has no relatives on earth” is.

    Because we get asked, “Why not?” and told, “You’ll change your mind,” if we say we don’t want to have children….. based on the experiences of women who have regretted not having children until it was too late mixed with compassion that we don’t end up making the same mistake.

    Because getting cat-called at while walking down the street at 8 a.m. is not a rare occurrence…… but getting swept off your feet by a rich man is who views you in the exact same way but has lots of money is a rare occurrence … unfortunately 😦

    Because women are taught how to avoid being assaulted or harassed, but I wish we didn’t have to take responsibility for our own personal safety, you know, like everybody expects men to do.

    Because my ex-boyfriend mostly encountered airheads when dating.

    Because we say, “I’m sorry” before saying we’re not interested… although that could be seen as kind of patronising and egotistical, too. It works both ways I guess.

    Because “I have a boyfriend” is more effective than “I’m not interested.”…. mostly because “I’m not interested” is soooooooooo often used as code for “I might be interested, if you impress me enough with your persistence, charm, gifts, dinner dates, flattery, patience and general hard work”

    Because we are taught to keep an eye on our drink so no one drugs it, to not leave our front door wide open when we go out so no one burgles our house and to not leave our car unlocked with the engine running so no one gets in and drives it away. WHY ARE WOMEN NOT SUPPLIED WITH FREE SECURITY STAFF AND BODY GUARDS!? It’s sooo unfair!!!

    Because we are so often not taken seriously when we choose to speak out, so millions of sexual assaults go unreported…. but not nearly as many as men who are raped almost as much as women (some studies in the US now claim men are raped more than women), but hardly any men ever speak out, mostly because no one cares about men being sexually assaulted.

    Because “All men throughout history are sociopaths who have deliberately and successfully oppressed women” is hate speech which is insulting to men and demeaning to women.

    Because when a woman is in an abusive relationship, people ask, “Why did you stay with him when there are so many women’s shelters and support groups available?”….. but when a man is in an abusive relationship nobody even bothers to asks that, and there aren’t any men’s shelters or support groups.

    Because a woman’s right to choose whether or not to be a mother is debated in courtrooms across the country, but a man can walk away from fatherhood anytime he chooses…..and be forced to pay for a child he didn’t want…. and may not even be his.

    Because a smile is not an invitation… although in most normal social situations it usually is … and I expect all men to learn to be telepathic so they can know the difference between a ‘yes’ smile and a ‘no’ smile. I demand it!

    Because I like to lead men on with the possibility of sex to entice them into buying me free drinks ….. but I hate it when they mistake me for an honest person who was genuinely attracted to them.

    Because my “no” should not result in a murderous rampage. (??)

    Because every single woman you have ever met – yes, every single woman – has been sexually harassed or abused which is something women share with most men. And 90% of mothers admit to hitting their children on a regular basis too.

    Because you are not entitled to my body, not culturally, and not legally – which must mean we don’t live in an evil patriarchy after all – hurray! Those feminists are all wrong!

    Because my worth has nothing to do with how much I am physically desired by men… er…. even though I feel like apologising if I am not wearing make up and looking flawless.

    Because not all men harass, abuse and mistreat women – but because of the ones that do, we live in fear, mostly thanks to relentless fear mongering and demonising of men by feminists.

    I mean can you imagine if black people were demonised to such an extent that white people were afraid of all black people? That is basically what feminists do when it comes to men, even though most men would put themselves in harms way to protect a women.

    Because I was afraid of writing this….. but (if I’m honest) not nearly as afraid as I would be going down a coal mine, or working on an oil rig, or fighting in a war, or constructing a tall building or doing any of the things men do on a regular basis to keep civilisation ticking along.

    Writing hateful things about men on the internet from the comfort of my own home is (statistically speaking) one of the safest activities in the world. Thanks to men – the bastards!!! 😉

    Liked by 7 people

      1. “…You totally missed her point, troll …”

        Calling me a troll is an attempt to shame me. It is a form of emotional bullying. Instead of trying to emotionally bully me, would you like to present an actual argument?

        “..she did not write hateful things about MEN – she wrote about hateful things SOME men have done to her and every other woman!…”

        First of all I disagree that all of the behaviour of men that she listed was hateful. Some of the examples had nothing to do with men whatsoever, yet she implied her own obsessions and insecurities were somehow men’s fault.

        Secondly crimes are crimes. If somebody mugs you or steals your car or sexually abuses you and you happen to be a woman, it is not a hate crime against ‘women’. It is just a mugging or a theft or sexual abuse. Men suffer these crimes too.

        Thirdly, I would like to ask you what your reaction would have been if this post had been called #YESALLWHITEPEOPLE …… and what she had written a list of all the bad things black people had done to her as a white person.

        Would that be acceptable to you? Would you leap to its defence?

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Being mugged or getting your car stolen is not gender based, but sexual abuse happens to women and girls way more often – and the victims have to suffer it because they are female, not because they are there. Nobody is denying that male victims exist – nobody is saying all men are like that – if you read that out of her words, you feel accused and should ask yourself why!

        Liked by 1 person

      3. (I’m replying to this comment again because your other comment has no reply button)

        Victims of sexual abuse are split fairly equally between men and women – some studies now claim more men are being raped than women in the US.

        Women victims of rape/ sexual abuse are taken more seriously than male victims, there is more support, more protection, more people willing to intervene and raping a girl/ woman is considered far more of a crime than raping a boy / man – especially if the rapist is a woman.

        Women who rape boys are often given the most ridiculously light sentences – or not sentenced at all. And the rape of boys/ men hardly EVER gets into the media.

        So the FACTS show we do not live in a ‘rape culture’ as feminists claim, and the original blog post (above) implies. We only live in a ‘rape culture’ when it comes to the rape of boys or men. When was the last time you heard media outrage or ANY media discussion about the rape of a boy or man?

        What are your thoughts on Adele Mercier, the feminist professor who recently said underage boys who were being raped by adult women at a detention facility were NOT being raped because underage boys can consent to sex? Do you think that is an acceptable thing to say? Nobody in the feminist movement has condemned her for saying that. Do you want to be the first?

        What if a MALE professor had said underage girls can consent to adult men who were having sex with them, so it wasn’t really rape? If a man said that he would probably have lost his job, there would have been angry protests, and the story would be all over the media.

        But because the children being raped are boys nobody cares.

        “..Nobody is denying that male victims exist..”

        The original blog post doesn’t mention anything about male victims, or female rapists….. instead it strongly implies rape/ sexual abuse is a problem suffered by women but not men. The WHOLE POST is basically implying that women are poor, helpless, weak, oppressed VICTIMS and that men are heartless, all powerful, sociopathic bastards.

        But like most forms of HATE SPEECH it does not come right out and say it in the open. Because deep down we all know that portraying ‘men’ in a negative way is really no different to portraying ‘black people’ or ‘jews’ or ‘gays’ in a negative way.

        If you study history you will learn that when a group is persecuted they are always depicted as a THREAT and the persecutors depict themselves as innocent VICTIMS. By depicting them as a threat over, and over, and over again society loses all empathy for the target group, and being a ‘victim’ helps to justify the persecution.

        Black people were first depicted as savage rapists lurking around every street corner – and this threat narrative justified their persecution. Jews were depicted as evil, schemers who were controlling society for their own benefit – and this threat narrative justified their persecution.

        If you combine those two threat narratives (savage rapists lurking around every street corner, and evil, schemers who are controlling society for their own benefit) you have the basic threat narrative used by feminists against men.

        Everything about the post above is a mirror image of what respectable, middle class white people used to say about black people to justify segregation and slavery. If you don’ believe me look up the archive footage of them protesting in the streets. Feminism is just another hate movement hiding behind a veil of ‘poor me’ victimhood.

        You never answered my question, so I will ask you again.

        If this post had been called #YESALLWHITEPEOPLE …… and if she had written a list of all the bad things black people had done to her as a white person would you still defend it?

        Like

      4. The bad things that happen to people of one skin colour happen to them not because of their skin colour – a MAIN difference to rape victims! Different things maybe treated differently – one of the main principles of justice.
        And the more you try to put all feminists into a HATE corner, the more you show you are a troll.

        Like

      5. Hey, I’m curious: what studies are these that are showing that more men are raped than women? Can you provide authors, titles, dates and all that? I’d be very interested in reading about these studies. Also, in your first comment you stated that 90% of mothers admit to hitting their children on a regular basis…I wonder where you got that statistic. Let me know if you could, please, because that’s pretty ground-breaking stuff…

        Like

      6. Those statistics are not that groundbreaking….. unless you have been getting your statistics from feminists. Feminists have been caught over and over again twisting the data to make it seem that only women are victims of rape, domestic violence etc.

        In some feminist studies women who had sex under the influence of drugs or alcohol were classified as having been raped, but men who were ‘forced to penetrate’ by a woman were classified as NOT having been raped….. I kid you not!

        I don’t have any links to hand but I’m sure it won’t be hard too search for them.

        The ‘more men are raped than women’ (in the US) generated quite a lot of controversy a few months ago so it should be pretty easy to find.

        The study factored in all the rapes that occur in prisons which is why the male rape figure was so high. It is well established that men are more likely to be arrested, charged and convicted of crimes compared to women who commit the same crimes. And men receive much higher sentences than women for the same crimes.

        So huge inequality against men in the criminal system results in far more men in jail than women, where those men are often subjected to rape.

        If women were being sent to jail more often than men (for he same crimes) and then subjected to rape it would be a ‘hot topic’ ….. but because it is men nobody cares.

        And of course if a couple or family are involved in crime (for example drug dealing) in order to pay the bills it is likely the man will be the one caught, convicted and sent to jail, even though the whole family are involved.

        The studies on women hitting their children is not that controversial. Even today plenty of women openly hit their children in public (in the supermarket for example). And plenty of people will tell you they were hit as a child. Most schools had some form of physical violence as a punishment until quite recently. Although the school I went to did not have an open policy of hitting children as a punishment I still remember one class where the teacher stopped the class to ‘ceremoniously’ hit a pupil (aged 13). This was in the late 80’s.

        Children are (unsurprisingly) the last group in society to be given full status as ‘people’. My god we even condemn (and sometimes arrest) people who hit their pets…. but not their own children!

        Like

      7. Again, I would love to see these statistics. I’m a sociology minor at the University of Utah with an interest in gender and sexuality. I think these statistics would make for a great paper. I’ll keep looking for them but if you happen upon them, you should shoot me the links.

        Hey, I won’t argue that rape is stigmatized. According to RAINN, about 60% of rapes do not get reported. And there’s the link for that statistic; you’re welcome to take a look at it: http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates. I think it probably is more difficult for men to report rape, but I would argue that that is because the traditional masculine mentality pressures them to be unrealistically strong, which somehow translates into them not admitting victimization. Maybe men feel they can’t be weak and being raped is an admittance of weakness. It’s certainly an injustice; men should be allowed to admit they need help, especially if they’ve been raped—because they do need help at that point. One reason I think men may not be taken as seriously is the perpetuation of the idea that men are “sex machines” who want sex all the time regardless of who it’s with, which is not true.

        I couldn’t really find anything on the assertion that men are raped more often than women. I did find this article, however: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/04/male_rape_in_america_a_new_study_reveals_that_men_are_sexually_assaulted.html

        The article has some good statistics, I think, and makes some interesting points concerning rape myths and men.

        Prison rape is a problem, especially for men. Partly because it is largely men who make up the prison population. More men are committing crimes so I think it follows that more men who be in prison, not that justifies the rape that occurs in prison. Not at all. As for the unfair punishment for men compared to women, I have to admit that I don’t know much about that. The example you gave about the family…I can think of instances wherein the man would be primarily the guilty party. I can think of instances wherein he’s not also, so…

        Anyway, I have to admit I’m a feminist, and despite your passionate arguments, I will remain a feminist. Maybe it’s a waste of air, maybe it’s not, but I wanted to say I don’t hate men and I don’t think all men are awful. I know a lot of good men who would make it difficult to hate men in general. I think men are definitely struggling with their own unique set of problems. Are feminists hard on men? Yes. Unfairly so? I don’t know. This is a question I have been attempting to answer for myself for a while now, because I think it is important for a group of people who say they are seeking equal consideration themselves to lend it to other people. I think it’s important to hear what people are thinking and feeling about issues like this. I appreciate your input; you’ve given me some things to think about and look into.

        I hope you have a lovely day! 🙂

        Like

      8. I agree that men tend to much less inclined to admit their own victimisation – even to themselves. Studies show that even when a man’s experience qualifies as him having been raped, often men will not think of it in those terms. There’s a brilliant (and short) video about this here:

        Why Rape Is Sincerely Hilarious

        The reason why is that throughout history men have been shown very little empathy or sympathy for their suffering and trauma (such as working in dangerous, scary and often life threatening work environments or on the battle field etc).

        In fact boys have always been raised (by women) to shrug off any sense of entitlement to comfort, safety, protection – emotional or physical. Boys are trained that only women are entitled to emotional and physical protection, comfort and safety, and that they should be provided to women by men. That is the job of the ‘traditional patriarchal male’.

        If, throughout history, men had indulged in their ‘feelings’ in the same way that women have been entitled to then they would not have gone to war, they would not have gone down the mines and they would not have gone to sea to fish at night in stormy weather in flimsy wooden boats!

        They would have stayed at home with their wives and children…. and the community would have soon starved to death.

        Basically, until the industrial revolution it was IMPERATIVE that most ordinary working men were emotionally callous – just for society to survive. And that is why men were shown no compassion, which trained them to suppress and bury their feelings.

        And what is so absolutely disgusting is the way feminists twist this into a narrative where men lack the CAPACITY to feel emotions by nature, and then they twist that to mean men are selfish brutes who are inclined to do evil or harm (especially to women) unencumbered by emotions (AKA the ‘patriarchy’).

        We develop callouses on our skin when that skin is repeatedly scraped and knocked. Emotions are the same! Men tend to be more emotionally callous because men’s emotions are scraped and knocked from the moment they are born.

        This is WHY when technology was rubbish and men had to do more dangerous and gruelling manual labour men were more emotionally callous than your modern metrosexual male who can now work in an air conditioned office sitting at a desk in his ergonomic chair while drinking a take away latte.

        Human beings are as emotionally sensitive as we can afford to be, given our circumstances.

        If you go out and find a homeless women who has been emotionally and physically neglected by society she will have the same emotional callousness as most working class men do. This tells us what the true status of most men in society is! Like homeless people, nobody really cares about men’s feelings, and so they often never learn to fully express them or indulge in them – because why bother?!

        Women, on the other hand (in the west I mean) are constantly expressing their feelings to the most absurd degree…. Like that feminist who recently complained that some guy asking her out for a coffee in an elevator was ‘oppressing’ her.

        The reason why women (not all women of course) are so prone to indulging in their feelings, is that society including men DO CARE about the emotional and physical wellbeing of women. Here is another brilliant (short) demonstration of this…

        Domestic abuse advert Mankind

        The truth is the so called ‘patriarchy’ is any society which places the needs and wants of WOMEN at the centre of society, in order to give children the best chance of survival.

        Everything is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what feminist theory claims. The patriarchy is there to serve women… women’s feelings and emotions are valued by society far more than men’s …. etc etc.

        The most downtrodden groups in society are always the groups who are LEAST vocal about their problems…. because they know that in general nobody will listen and nobody cares.

        Feminists are (often wilfully) blind to the fact that having endless conferences, TV debates, newspaper articles all about women’s issues – many of them absurdly trivial and self indulgent – is a massive neon sign that they are not oppressed at all.

        The blogosphere is now full of middle class, privileged women claiming that having a massive wardrobe of clothes to choose from is ‘oppression’…. that having drinks and meals bought for them by men is ‘oppression’…. that being able to earn a living (and often a fortune) being photographed is ‘oppression’….. that having to work your way up the career ladder based on performance is ‘oppression’… etc.

        “…Anyway, I have to admit I’m a feminist,…. I don’t hate men and I don’t think all men are awful. ….. Are feminists hard on men? Yes. Unfairly so? I don’t know. ….”

        It’s very simple…… Feminism claims (via ‘patriarchy theory’) that men have deliberately and successfully oppressed women and in doing so created a society which benefits men at the expense of women. That automatically defines men as sociopaths. It also defines women as weak, pathetic imbeciles with no agency.

        So if you are a feminist you believe (1) men are sociopaths by virtue of being men and (2) that women are lesser beings (essentially objects controlled by men) by virtue of being women.

        That is feminist theory in a nutshell.

        If the target group of feminists was any other group other than men (ie blacks, gays, jews, gingers etc) we would all immediately recognise and acknowledge feminism as a DANGEROUS HATE GROUP.

        In fact the hatred spread by feminism, and the arguments used to spread it are nothing new.

        I already pointed out previously that feminism’s ‘threat narritive’ of men (men are rape-y, savage, scheming, controlling) is identical to the ‘threat narratives’ used to justify the persecution of blacks and jews in recent history.

        Feminism is the new racism/ anti-semitism…. now redirected towards a new target group ‘men’.

        A quick Startpage search on ‘more men are raped than women in the us’ immediately brought up a whole page of results, including articles referencing the study in question.

        I’m not claiming the study is 100% accurate, and it is obviously an impossible statistic to objectively measure for the reasons discussed… but it’s clear that the number of male/ female rape victims is really not that different.

        Whatever figures you go with they all expose feminism’s ‘rape culture’ narrative as a disgusting distortion of reality.

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      9. “…The bad things that happen to people of one skin colour happen to them not because of their skin colour – a MAIN difference to rape victims! Different things maybe treated differently – one of the main principles of justice…”

        You are evading the question and your argument makes no sense.

        Crimes are committed by black people AND white people….. and BOTH groups can also be victims of crime too.
        In he same way, crimes (including sexual assault and rape) are committed by men AND women…. and BOTH groups can also be victims of those crimes too.

        Even if one group commits more crimes than another group that does not mean they are automatically more criminally inclined by virtue of being black, white, male or female.

        I live in an area where black street crime far outweighs white street crime. But I understand this is NOT because black people are predisposed towards street crime just because of being black. The imbalance in crime is caused by complex social/ economic/ political factors.

        So imagine that I started a #YESALLWHITEPEOPLE hashag and write a long blog post listing all the horrible things (real or imagined) that I thought black people had done to me as a white person…… as well as writing about how frightened, self pitying, insecure and unhappy black people made me feel.

        Would you say that was grossly offensive?
        Would you say I was using the IDEA of my victimhood as a white person to encouraged racist attitudes against black people?
        Would you say I was being unfair by not including white crimes and black victims of crimes?
        Would you say I was actually spreading hate, under the thin veil of my sob story?

        or

        Would you leap to its defence, like you have done for this blog post?

        “…And the more you try to put all feminists into a HATE corner, the more you show you are a troll…”

        This is more shaming tactics (emotional bullying) and an attempt to avoid discussing the issues I am raising. Trolls do not present logical arguments to back up what they say. You can try and refute the logic of my arguments, but just calling me a troll is not an argument.

        *IF* feminists (or any other group) are promoting hatred then they SHOULD be exposed for doing that, wouldn’t you agree?

        I have made my case for why feminists, including the author of this blog (who seems to be aligned with feminist theory) are spreading hatred.

        I don’t think all feminists are DELIBERATELY spreading hatred, and that includes the author of this blog. Most hate groups are very clever to disguise their hate with ‘noble causes’ and ‘threat narratives’. Just look at how nazism managed to entice millions of otherwise moral Germans into supporting it. By the time they figured out what they were REALLY supporting it was too late.

        All historical examples of mass persecution started out with the persecutors claiming their target group (blacks, jews etc) were a ‘threat to civilised society’ (savages, rapists, schemers, control freaks etc)….. and that they (the persecutors) were the poor, innocent, vulnerable victims.

        This is also exactly what feminism (and this blog post) promotes: men are the threat to civilised society and women are the poor, innocent, vulnerable victims.

        I humbly and passionately suggest you study the history of mass persecution before defending feminism any more.

        Like

      10. By using up so much space you are just hijacking this comment line – and I will defend feminism as much as I like – nobody is saying men in general are a threat to civilised society – your generalism of feministic reasoning is not really worth so much space.

        Like

      11. “…. By using up so much space you are just hijacking this comment line ….”

        That is just you avoiding my questions again. If I was using the space to say how unhappy and angry men made me feel you would not complain.

        “….and I will defend feminism as much as I like – nobody is saying men in general are a threat to civilised society…”

        That is precisely what feminism says! You have just proved my previous point that many feminists don’t have a clue what kind of movement they are supporting.

        Feminism is based on ‘Patriarchy Theory’ which is the theory that throughout history men have deliberately and successfully oppressed women in order to create an unfair oppressive society which benefits men at the expense of women (AKA the ‘patriarchy’). Feminism claims men are a threat to women’s freedom and happiness, and to civilised society in general.

        If you do not believe men are, as a group, a threat to civilised society then you are NOT a feminist …. you are a sane human being 🙂

        Nazism said jews were a threat to civilised society…. and nazis claimed THEY were the victims and that jews were the oppressors.

        Feminism says men are a threat to civilised society … and feminists claim THEY are the victims and that men are the oppressors.

        Notice any similarities? I suggest you research feminism, before making any more claims about it. Here are a few quotes from prominent feminists to start you off.

        “I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” — Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.

        “To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.” — Valerie Solanas, Authoress of the SCUM Manifesto

        “The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness…can be trained to do most things.” — Jilly Cooper, SCUM

        “I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.” — Andrea Dworkin

        “Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience.” – Catherine Comins

        “When a woman reaches orgasm with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression.” — Sheila Jeffrys

        “All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman.” — Catherine MacKinnon

        “The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men.” — Sharon Stone; Actress

        “The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” — Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future – If There Is One – Is Female.

        As you can see, feminism is just as hateful and insane as nazism was in 1930’s Germany.

        But like most ordinary nazi supporters, you don’t sound like a hateful, evil person… just tragically confused and misguided.

        “…. your generalism of feministic reasoning is not really worth so much space…”

        Again, that is not an argument, that is just a way to avoid discussing the subject.

        We have all been heavily conditioned by feminists to have NO EMPATHY towards men – and to not even view them as human beings with feelings and vulnerabilities of their own – and so I understand its hard for you to see how hateful you are being towards them.

        That is why I urge you to imagine if this blog post was written by a WHITE PERSON all about BLACK PEOPLE, instead of being written by a woman all about men.

        #YESALLWHITEPEOPLE

        Because black people make me feel uncomfortable on public transport

        Because black people rape white people

        Because when I smile at a black person it is not an invitation

        Because white people are taught how to avoid being assaulted or harassed, rather than black people being taught how to treat others with respect.

        Because not all black people harass, abuse and mistreat white people – but because of the ones that do, we live in fear

        (and so on)

        If you cannot see how this is using a totally twisted and biased ‘threat narrative’ to promote hate speech then, sadly, you are beyond hope 😦

        Like

    1. “Because a smile is not an invitation… although in most normal social situations it usually is … and I expect all men to learn to be telepathic so they can know the difference between a ‘yes’ smile and a ‘no’ smile. I demand it!”

      Um…here’s a tip. Maybe you could listen to a woman’s WORDS rather than rely only on her smile. In fact, maybe you could even ask a woman, “Do you want to have sex?” and if she says “yes,” then have sex with her, and if she says “no,” then don’t. Telepathy is not necessary.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I think you missed the meaning of the original statement which was:

        “Because a smile is not an invitation”

        The way I understood it, she is saying that if she smiles at a man that does not necessarily mean she is being flirty and inviting more intimate social / sexual behaviour.

        However, I was pointing out that often a smile DOES mean exactly that – especially in social situations (bars, nightclubs etc).

        Holding your arm up does not necessarily mean you want a cab… but often it does – especially if you are standing outside a hotel.

        Most socialising – especially of a flirty nature – is done through NON VERBAL cues. These cues work very well most of the time. But if you accidentally send out the wrong signal that’s what WORDS are there for.

        So you and I agree 🙂 Words are the way to go.

        Rather than complain that some man isn’t telepathic enough to know what’s going on inside her brain, she should just TELL the man how she feels, so he will know. Simples.

        Like

      2. The point you are desperately trying to persuade is pathetic and not worth the argument. However, I sense you are a very bitter man who doesn’t really give a rats ass about how women feel and would rather make misogyny a women’s issue instead of a man’s mental problem. Sounds like you need to take responsibility for your bitterness toward women and get some help.

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      3. “…The point you are desperately trying to persuade is pathetic and not worth the argument…”

        The point I am making is that portraying women as the weaker and more victimised sex is (a) blatantly untrue when you look at the evidence (b) demeaning to all women (c) insulting to all men.

        “..However, I sense you are a very bitter man who doesn’t really give a rats ass about how women feel and would rather make misogyny a women’s issue instead of a man’s mental problem….”

        Your ‘senses’ got it wrong on every count. But I suspect you did not really ‘sense’ those things. You were simply using the idea of sensing those things trying in an attempt to shame me.

        If you disagree with what I wrote, by all means make a proper argument instead of just trying to emotionally bully me with your thinly veiled ad hominem jibes.

        “…Sounds like you need to take responsibility for your bitterness toward women and get some help….”

        I invite you to explain HOW my arguing against the feminist claim that women are weak, stupid, inferior, oppressed, objects at the mercy of evil men is an example of ‘bitterness towards women’.

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      4. I can tell you really love to hear yourself talk..write..what have you. It’s your combative nature is what you and only you put out there for people to measure the kind of person you are. If you are a misogynist just shut up and own it. You don’t need all this diatribe bullshit to prove a point that is already obvious to everyone reading this thread.

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      5. Everything you wrote is just you trying to shame me (ie emotional bullying). There are no facts or arguments in your comment whatsoever.

        If you actually refute any of my arguments or fact, please feel free to say which ones you refute and why.

        If you have an actual argument please make it.

        You accuse me of being a misogynist even though I am the one arguing that women are NOT weak, pathetic, stupid creatures with no agency who are controlled by men like objects. Please explain yourself. Do you even know what misogyny means?

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      6. Obviously I know what misogyny means since I used it in the proper context. Duh. One fact you have completely wrong is that you say somewhere above (can’t read it as I type on my iPhone) to the effect that boys are being abused more than girls. If that is true then there wouldn’t be the violence against women’s act. Male abuse is getting more attention but it is you that needs to cite your facts. Shame you? Ha! Don’t play the victim. Your initial post was offensive and it was clearly meant to be…unless you are being completely sarcastic, your attempt to make a joke was far from funny. How we dress, how we act, or do whatever the hell we do is none of mans business and it is men who need to check their disgustingly shallow beliefs and treatment toward women. Has zero to do with feminism and more to do with a deranged male mind. If you’ve never seen the tv show To Catch A Predator you would know it could be any guy ready to molest or rape a woman even if he knows it’s wrong. But to argue with you would be falling into your bullshit and arguing with an insane person. You won’t stop until you can find a nugget to throw back in someone’s face. You posted on this thread so don’t act the victim of someone calls you out on your bullshit.

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    2. If anybody cares for some actual numbers (as opposed to newspaper/magazine articles and “I wish it were true, so it’s true, it’s true, it’s true”). Also, I would try to define my terms properly (what kind of “assault” are you talking about?).

      Spinning For Difficulty, you are simply disingenuous when you describe this post as an instance of “hate-speech” (as opposed to a person detailing her experiences as a victim). Your analogy with hate-speech against blacks or Jews doesn’t hold water; white people engaging in this kind of hate-speech have been OVERWHELMINGLY on the side of the oppressors; to suggest that women have been represented in GREATER (or even EQUAL numbers) on the side of the oppressors simply shows ignorance. This is because you ignore human experience for several thousands of years across hundreds of societies around the world; worse still, you condemn feminism, the movement which can be given most credit for the current situation in the US with a more gender-balanced proportion of victims (but NOT for sexual assaults; see numbers below).

      Gender of victim

      Males were victims of violent crime at rates slightly higher than females, indicating a continuing convergence of male and female victimization.

      Differences between male and female rates of simple assault were not statistically significant in 2009.

      This has occurred twice since 2000, in 2001 and 2007.

      Consistent with previous years, males experienced higher rates of robbery and aggravated assault than females.

      Females were more likely than males to be victims of rape or sexual assault. (1)

      Women

      1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime (14.8% completed rape; 2.8% attempted rape). (2)

      17.7 million American women have been victims of attempted or completed rape. (2)

      9 of every 10 rape victims were female in 2003. (3)

      Men

      About 3% of American men — or 1 in 33 — have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime. (2)

      In 2003, 1 in every ten rape victims were male. (3)
      2.78 million men in the U.S. have been victims of sexual assault or rape. (2)

      References

      (1) U.S. Department of Justice. Bureau of Justice Statistics. 2010 National Crime Victimization Survey, 2009. (http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv09.pdf)

      (2) National Institute of Justice & Centers for Disease Control & Prevention. Prevalence, Incidence and Consequences of Violence Against Women Survey. 1998.

      (3) U.S. Department of Justice. 2003 National Crime Victimization Survey. 2003.

      Like

      1. “…Spinning For Difficulty, you are simply disingenuous when you describe this post as an instance of “hate-speech” (as opposed to a person detailing her experiences as a victim). …”

        I have already explained why this post qualifies as hate speech, and how it promotes a ‘threat narrative’ about men and how ‘threat narratives’ have historically always been the foundation of all acts of mass persecution and victimisation.

        You have not addressed, let alone rebutted, any of my arguments.

        For many years I lived in an area with a higher proportion of black violence, black street crime, black intimidation etc than white violence, crime etc.

        I have had knives and guns pointed at me by black people. I have been mugged at knifepoint. I am white. I was (as everyone else was, black or white) acutely aware of the potential dangers of walking down the street and always on the look out for warning signs of potential muggers. I often modified my behaviour accordingly as a precaution, such as taking a different route and generally ‘keeping my head down’.

        Despite my negative experiences, I also had plenty of black/ white friends and colleagues and plenty of enjoyable interactions with black/ white people while out socialising or using public transport etc. Just as I’m sure the author of this blog also has many male/ female friends and colleagues and has had many enjoyable interactions with men/ women too.

        I could, if I wanted to, select from my life experiences only those instances which define me as a white victim and define black people as aggressive and violent oppressors.

        But to do that would be totally unfair, hateful and an example of me stirring up racial division and hatred.

        Just imagine me writing a similar blog to this one, except with me portraying myself as a white victim of black oppression…… (rather than a female victim of male oppression).

        Would such a blog post be acceptable to you?

        #YesAllWhites

        Because I worry about being mugged by black people when I walk down the street at night.

        Because I feel I can’t enjoy listening to my ipod in public for fear of being attacked by black thieves.

        Because I’m afraid to make eye contact with black people in the street in case they decide I’m ‘starting something’

        (and so on)

        Can you see how this display of emotional ‘poor me’ victimhood builds up a threat narrative about black people based on emotion, which (if repeated often enough) will lower everyone’s empathy towards black people and define them all as a group threat, rather than as individual human beings?

        This kind of ‘threat narrative’ de-humanises the target group. Does it matter if that target group is black people, jews or men? Are they not all groups of INDIVIDUALS who must never be judged by the (alleged) crimes of a tiny minority of them?

        Would you defend my #YesAllWhites blog post from accusations of hate speech – like you are defending this blog post?

        What’s the difference? I mean, seriously, what is the difference?!

        “…Your analogy with hate-speech against blacks or Jews doesn’t hold water; white people engaging in this kind of hate-speech have been OVERWHELMINGLY on the side of the oppressors; to suggest that women have been represented in GREATER (or even EQUAL numbers) on the side of the oppressors simply shows ignorance….”

        You TOTALLY miss the point here. Hate speech is hate speech.

        What you are doing is basically the equivalent of defending my #YesAllWhites blog post by pointing out that black street crime IS more prevalent than white street crime in most cities …. therefore it must be OK to write emotive blog posts portraying black people, as a group, as being oppressors of poor victimised white people.

        That’s how all persecution starts…. by encouraging the general public to view the target group as a threat to civilised society. Go back in time and ask any racist housewife why she supports the oppression of black people and she will say “THEY are the oppressors, not us. We are the victims. They are the savages and the rapists. We are the civilised people”

        The moment you define *any* group in such simplistic, emotive and divisive terms (ie as a collective threat to civilised society) you have already started down the EXACT SAME PATH that led to the persecution/ enslavement/ oppression of blacks and jews.

        Your statistics are dubious for many reasons (the way male vs female rape is defined is absurd for a start) ….but in any case, statistics are *completely irrelevant* to this issue of hate speech.

        The more you try to use statistics to justify using a dehumanising threat narrative against the group ‘men’ (or the group ‘blacks’ or ‘jews’ or any other group) the bigger the hole you are digging for yourself.

        Like

  5. This is now my go to “yes I need feminism and this is why” post. Thank you so much for writing it and writing it so well.

    Like

  6. Reblogged this on bellahickman and commented:
    I wish that I could make sure this blog post was able to reach the eyes of every human being on the planet, but even if I could do that, I know that isn’t the same as this post reaching the mind of every human being.
    When am I going to be able to walk from my front door to my car at night without having to constantly look over my shoulder to make sure no one is following me?
    When am I going to be able to wear whatever I want in public and know that in my heart of hearts, if anything happens to me, my clothing won’t be called into question in court?
    When will the word feminism be well known for its actual meaning: “the fight for equality of women and men.”
    When will all women be able to live in peace, without fear of being raped if they are in the wrong place at the wrong time?
    When will I be able to trust that the man telling me that I’m pretty and buying me a drink at a club really just wants to be a nice guy and complement me?

    People who believe that men and women have achieved equality are sadly mistaken.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. “…When will the word feminism be well known for its actual meaning: “the fight for equality of women and men.”…”

      The answer is: when feminists are finally able convince the rest of the world they actually ARE fighting for equality for men and women.

      Maybe YOU will be the first feminist who is able to convince the rest of the world that feminists really are fighting for gender equality!

      All you have to do is write out a list of all the inequalities feminists are campaigning against. If half of those inequalities disadvantage women and half of them disadvantage men then you have proved that feminism is really about fighting for gender equality.

      If that’s too difficult for you, you could start by naming just THREE examples of inequalities in society which happen to *disadvantage men* that feminism is currently fighting to end – all in the name of ‘gender equality’.

      Ready, steady, GO!

      …. OK, I’ll tell you what….. just name one.

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      1. The biggest one that I know of is feminists working to stop the abuse of men with their own masculinity. Society tells males that they have this little tiny box in which they can express certain emotions, but if they go outside of this box, or express too many emotions, they are no longer masculine. There are documentaries, you should look them up. Also, there are many feminist groups trying to raise awareness about the sexual assault of males. The idea that men can be sexually assaulted and even raped by men AND females is a hard concept for society to grasp, but feminists are working to make sure that men have a voice too.

        Like

      2. “..The biggest one that I know of is feminists working to stop the abuse of men with their own masculinity….”

        Defining masculinity as bad is an example of feminists ABUSING and OPPRESSING men.

        “..Society tells males that they have this little tiny box in which they can express certain emotions, but if they go outside of this box, or express too many emotions, they are no longer masculine…”

        Yes, and by society you mean WOMEN. Throughout history WOMEN (mothers, girlfriends, wives etc) *raised* boys to be shut off from their emotions and *shamed* men for being too emotionally sensitive. Why did they do this? The answer is because women wanted and needed men to do all the dangerous, disgusting, exhausting, scary, traumatising work in society… from fishing the open seas, to working down mines, to fighting wars.

        It was WOMEN who gave pacifists who refused to fight in WWI a white flower as a symbol of shame. The message was ‘If you are not prepared to go and murder and be killed on the battle field you have no chance of getting laid’.

        It is WOMEN who have always swooned over ‘men in uniform’ (men dressed in the costume of hired assassins for the state).

        It is WOMEN who have always chosen the most aggressive, dominant, callous and often psychopathic men as husbands because these are the men who can gather the most resources for women and protect women the best.

        When people live tough, scary, dangerous, traumatising lives they naturally close off from their sensitive emotional side. It’s the only way they can function. Men and women only have a sensitive emotional side when they can AFFORD to. Go and find a homeless woman who is neglected by society and you’ll see she is as rough and callous emotionally as any working class man.

        In general nobody CARES about the feelings of boys or men and THAT is why they are so prone to becoming emotionally detached.

        Feminists do NOT help men to get back in touch with their emotions because feminists show men ZERO empathy or sympathy…. in fact feminist (by definition) defines men as oppressors and sociopaths which is the OPPOSITE of victims. Feminism SHAMES men for reacting normally to the complete lack of compassion shown to them by women.

        The ONLY way to encourage callous men to get more in touch with their feelings again is to recognise they can be victims too (just like women) and to treat them with compassion. Feminism does the complete OPPOSITE of that.

        “.. Also, there are many feminist groups trying to raise awareness about the sexual assault of males. The idea that men can be sexually assaulted and even raped by men AND females is a hard concept for society to grasp, but feminists are working to make sure that men have a voice too…”

        Absolute rubbish.

        Feminism shows zero compassion to male rape victims and in many cases refuses to acknowledge that boys/ men even can be raped.

        In feminist studies on rape women who have sex while drunk or on drugs are classified as rape victims, but men who are ‘forced to penetrate’ by a woman are NOT classified as rape. That is how feminists get their rape statistics. It is disgusting.

        Recently a feminist professor (Adele Mercier) claimed that underage boys in a detention facility who were being raped by their adult female staff were NOT really being raped because (according to her) underage boys *can* give consent to sex with adults.

        The feminist movement were quick to rally around her and defend her disgusting statements. They even made weird threatening videos at the people who were trying to condemn her for making those comments.

        The media, politics, education, bookstores are FULL of feminist ideology which is rarely challenged with facts….. but the only men’s rights conference to be held this year is now threatened with being cancelled because of terrorism threats made to the Marriott hotel which is hosting it – threats presumably made by feminists.

        Everything you claim is (like all feminist claims) the exact opposite of what the FACTS show.

        Like

  7. I am not going to tell anyone why I agree with this or not, because as a man I feel like I’m not entitled to do say. I am going to read, listen, watch and care. I am trying to empathise, I am trying to learn. I am trying to be different from this. I am not going to challenge it, but I am also not going to agree; not because I don’t think it is true. But because I don’t want it to be true. Maybe if men just tried to understand, instead of trying to explain themselves, or argue or try to convince people that they are different(like I do now; I apologise). Maybe if they listened instead of talked, read instead of wrote. Maybe things would be better…

    Liked by 3 people

  8. Yea, sorry about all that stuff. I wish I could find women less attractive but I am aware of my presence around them and try to be respectful, cross the road to give them space etc. I am one of those that has never abused, never raped, never raised my hand but I get that can’t excuse those that have. I don’t think it’s possible to fully explain the weak-kneed, exhalation of wonder and awe that a stunning woman induces in the male; after all, we are totally ruled by our visual experiences until conversation is made. I do try not to gasp aloud but seriously, sometimes it’s all I can do to stop the instinct. I have no answers, only that a friend of mine has recently begun to find that she no longer gets the attention she had begrudgingly grown used to and now finds she’s slightly resentful though also sometimes relieved to finally be left alone.
    The conundrum eh?

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Reblogged this on Lexy Gross and commented:
    #YesAllWomen is an interesting perspective and I agree on several points. I do think it will take women voicing their concerns, such as in this post, for people to see that maybe these stigmas or stereotypes shouldn’t be so common.

    Liked by 1 person

  10. The post is really nice. A small piece of advice, carry yourself the way you want, do whatever you wish to, Iive your life. Be cautious. I would just say, not all men are same (one man’s gravy is another man’s poison). May you find a right person who protects you like a shield. o:-)

    Liked by 1 person

  11. It was an eye opening post. No matter which country women belong to or how educated (or not) they become, getting harassed or assaulted in some way has become a part of their daily routine unfortunately

    Like

  12. Simply wow…no words beyond this….you echoed the spirit of each and every women let it be any continent in this world….wonderfully put words. I currently wrote a poem on this context with different dimension on what is it that makes women only an object do desire…and as a mother to a son, my prime responsibility lies in teaching him the basics to respect women in true sense and take them as equal counterpart. I am going to follow you…great article…simple writing yet strong message.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Thank you for writing this. Speaking of people’s fear of feminism, in my opinion if men see us as their equals, they won’t be afraid of the idea; while for women, they shouldn’t be afraid of addressing their needs to be respected and treated fairly, regardless of what the mainstream discourse says.

    Like

  14. ﻻ ﺷﻲﺀ ﻳﻤﻜﻨﻪ ﺃﻥ ﻳﻜﺴﺮﻧﺎ ﻣﺜﻞ ﺍﻵﻣﺎﻝ ﺍﻟﻮﺷﻴﻜﺔ
    ﺍﻟﺤﺪﻭﺙ، ﺛﻢَّ ﺑﺒﺴﺎﻃﺔ ﻻ ﺗﺤﺪﺙ

    Like

  15. You must live in a pretty rough neighbourhood. The girls I know don’t care at all about this stuff. They are more likely to drop their handbag in a taxi than it being stolen. It’s all about which company you keep. Having male friends around when you go out drinking with a attractive clothing and valuables is probably a good idea. People do stupid stuff when they are drunk, like randomly grope girls. Pick fights with guys. Throw up. Fall on top of people.

    Don;t really understand the physically abused part for single women though… And it’s great if you want to be you for you. Although I know people who have gone through a lot to just be them. Turns out all their dresses, make-up, and mannerisms were just to fit in and be noticed. They had convinced themselves these societal norms were ‘for them’.

    Really I don’t think people need to worry about their drinks being drugged. We had a big hype about it in the UK and I think there were like 3 or 4 cases in the nastiest part of London. The only thing both females and males should watch is their alcohol intake. Puts us all at risk.

    Nice post 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  16. Hi! Loved your blog, it was very honest. I’m writing something on the same issue and was wondering if you would mind me using quotes from yours? I have no clue how to message you about it privately haha it’s not exactly geared towards the same goal, but I found this to be more endearing and real than other blogs and articles I’ve read about the issue. You’re welcome to email me about it too 🙂 it’s hroth1313@gmail.com

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Because the TV is cluttered with images of family life where the father is a bumbling idiot, the mother portrayed above him on an intellectual scale and the kids circumventing his authority continually. (We call this “family comedy” for some strange reason)

    Because the cinemas are cluttered with vapid films showing men who are uncouth, boorish types with poor personal hygiene and dietary habits until women enter their lives and “civilize” them (We call these “romance” or “romantic comedy” films for some strange reason)

    Because when the media sexually assaults men in its not so subtle ways; it is presented to us, perversely, as “comedy” and both male and female viewers are supposed to perceive it as funny. Only when the media belittles and demeans women is it a problem to be taken seriously.

    Because women blame men for objectifying them and yet seem oblivious to the fact that most fashion magazines these days which show images of women with impossibly thin physiques in often very revealing clothes and suggestive poses have a woman at the top position in the company.

    Because if a woman complained about any of the above, she’d be listened to and supported. If a man complained about them he’d be told to “Grow some balls and be a man”.

    Because of the points I’ve listed above and the hypocrisy which still remains, in both directions, between the genders; It is not appropriate to say that only men must reassess how they treat women.

    Both genders must reevaluate how we treat one another and, I dare say more importantly, how we allow the media to shape our views of one another.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I definitely agree that both genders must evaluate how we treat one another, and as a whole, how we as people treat each other — whether it’s woman to woman, man to woman, adult to child, boss to employee, etc. It wasn’t my intention to reinforce stereotypes here but to point out that there are unfortunately still men that fall into the stereotypes I mentioned, and that is why women live in fear and these stereotypes are perpetuated even further. I hope eventually this doesn’t become a gender-based issue, but that we can look at the way we treat each other as people.

      Liked by 1 person

  18. Dear Katey,
    I thank you humbly, I appreciate you deeply, I admire you for speaking out and for being the intelligent, spiritual person that you are.
    I am one of the increasing number of males who have come into this messy world to fight with and for you because we unconditionally love all daughters of the Goddess. You are never alone; your path will be blessed with more members of our true family who will be honoring you and fiercely protecting your freedom.
    A shower of blessings to You, beloved sister.
    You are a divine female;
    do not feel fear;
    just Love!
    Leon
    Ode to the Divine Feminine and a Call to Arms

    Like

  19. Because we tell little girls, “I like your dress,” “Don’t you look pretty” and “You’re so sweet” instead of “What’s your favorite book?,” “Let’s go outside and play,” and “What do you think about that?”

    Because I was shocked when “Frozen” used sisters as a demonstration of true love and I expected the man to come save that icy princess the whole damn time.

    Because the girl on the Air Force commercials has to refer to herself as “an American Airman.”

    Because the male student who grabbed a female student’s breast in my classroom two weeks ago got a “warning” not to do it again.

    Because we are the only civilized, 1st-world nation on the planet that still does not honor any paid maternity leave whatsoever.

    Because it all hasn’t stopped yet.

    Liked by 2 people

  20. “Because women are taught how to avoid being assaulted or harassed, rather than men being taught how to treat others with respect.

    Because my ex-boyfriend described me as “the only smart girl he’d ever met” – and that’s why he had decided to date me, instead of just sleeping with me and tossing me aside with the other girls. Because he was surprised that I am smart.”

    BRAVO!!

    Like

  21. I told my male friend that every single woman has been harrassed by a man. And he said, “I can’t believe that-a lot of ugly women are out there”. Believe me, most men are completely out of touch. I hope men actually read through these and try to empathize.

    Liked by 1 person

  22. Reblogged this on briannecourtney and commented:
    I absolutely love this. It’s unfortunate that women continue to struggle with the issues of sexual harassment. However, it’s awesome that #YesAllWomen continues the dialogue with this blog post as an example!

    ~xo

    Like

  23. Because it’s 2014, we can put man on the moon and artificially create life, but some men STILL can’t understand that they are not entitled to take women like they’re just another fucking object.

    Amen sister, perfectly written piece, and so sad that it’s still necessary to spread these messages in this day and age.

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  24. So few comments. I agree with you, except for the appropriateness of dress at work. Because in our society, men dress without regard to their sexuality (THOSE with less power do make themselves more attractive through dress, makeup, surgery. Beauty requires pain, and millions are willing to pay the price.) Call me a feminist, but desire to wear “sexy” on the job is more related to our power status (less power) than to our freedom. Maybe men wear the uniform because they are afraid of looking different.

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  25. The word “military” never showed up in this entire thread. This oversight needs to be addressed. Rapes in the US military are epidemic and covered up routinely. But beyond the obvious, America itself is a brutal, global empire that rapes other nations with impunity, and has done for a very long time. This is opposed by only a small fraction of the population, who are easily tear gassed, beaten and hauled off if the rulers find them inconvenient.

    So as long as the topic is this fucked up beyond belief society we live in, then how about some acknowledgement of the basic structure of a military empire? We claim over 1,000 bases in other people’s nations. We attack foreign governments overtly and covertly all the time with zero accountability for glaring war crimes.

    Since WW2 America has engaged in over 200 foreign military campaigns. The only permissible response seems to be to cheer for these wars and especially for those that perpetrate them. Offense is redefined as defense, and this passes without question.

    The people responsible (Obama at present) are cheered on by millions, who seem to have no clue what it is they cheer for. Or perhaps they do. Or perhaps they do.

    Liked by 1 person

  26. This was nice, but I can’t agree with this statement:

    “Because a woman’s right to choose whether or not to be a mother is debated in courtrooms across the country, but a man can walk away from fatherhood anytime he chooses.”

    Women leave their children with extended family, give them up for adoption or place them in foster care. Women have plenty of options to walk away from motherhood as well.

    Like

  27. LOVED THIS. my favorite line was “because a smile is not an invitation” All there is left to say is thank you for writing this 🙂

    Like

  28. There is a quote I love from poet Muriel Rukeyser: “What would happen if one woman told the truth about her life? The world would split open.”

    Thank you for helping split the world open in such an eloquent way.

    Liked by 2 people

  29. Every woman lives your fears whether she is from Africa, America or Asia. Women are working equally with men but man’s perception about woman is often related to objectifying her. Moral values are collapsing breaking the boundaries of temptations, encroaching upon the respect of women and generating low class society full of fiends. Future seems much darker than we can imagine if mentality of men is not altered. Thank God! There are some men among us who think in the similar way

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  30. I appreciate that you wrote this. I agree to this piece fully. Because we are women so it gives every men the right to abuse us or sexually harass us, use us for anything and everything he wants. We women have to fight for our rights. we are just known as, mothers, sisters, wives or as lovers nothing beyond that. If we use the word feminism for equal rights for us, then men say we are discriminating whereas feminism means equal rights for men and women.

    Like

  31. Reblogged this on IntrinZic Revolution and commented:
    I hate that this is true. As humans, we should be better than this. As a feminist, I am not surprised at any of this. This is what I aim to alleviate in this world. The pain of this woman’s fear for posting. Her experiences speak to what EVERY woman has endured at some point in her life.

    Like

  32. Great post. This couldn’t be more relevant to our current state of “culture” in the world. Check out an article I just posted on sunmedallion.com it’s a first hand account given by my sister at a “safe” indie rock concert in New York City. The events occurred the same evening as the tragic UC Santa Barbara shootings. Keep posting great content.

    Like

  33. You have wonderfully and compellingly expressed the frustrating and frustrated status of women in an age of perceived gender equality. Thank you for writing this and giving those thoughts and feelings so many of us share a voice.

    Like

  34. gah! the words right out of my mouth…

    the objectification of women needs to stop. it happens. every effin second.

    I have been thinking about this all too often lately, as I watch the world around me continue to hurt women, and as the world around me continues to ask me the wedding and children questions.

    Society — Just stop >.<

    Like

  35. Thank you! As a guy, I was aware of a lot of this, but not all! Please ladies, be more open about these things, most guys are just being guys, and are not aware that we may be being offensive.
    Follow your heart, speak your truth and be happy!

    Like

  36. Reblogged this on Rapunzel2323 and commented:
    This is one of the most powerful things I have read. Being raised the way I was, to fight back and respect myself, this reaches my heart. I suggest, if you’re a woman, you read below.

    Like

  37. I’m amazed by the number of comments on here — I wish I could go through and reply to every one of them! Thank you all so much for reading and subscribing. I appreciate your comments, reblogs and criticism!

    xx

    Like

  38. Reblogged this on hub of musings and commented:
    Too much way truth about the post. Thought provoking and powerful. I can relate to most of them (cat calling and looking at you as if they own you). Every. Single. Time.

    Wherein a “NO” respond implies a complete sentence. No explanations and coercion should be done after, unless, otherwise, spoken and did freely by each party.

    Not to generalize all men, but, the post exists because there are men that do, so as women live in fear and defensive mode.
    Some men experience the same way as well.
    “Because not all men harass, abuse and mistreat women – but because of the ones that do, we live in fear, mostly thanks to relentless fear mongering and demonising of men by feminists.”

    “If women are taught to dress decently,
    why don’t men are taught to act decently.”

    RESPECT.

    Like

  39. Sucks to have to take responsibility for your dress and actions.

    All women have been abused or harassed = bullshit. You have proof of that? Stop making general statements designed to get an emotional response.

    Your no caused a murderous rampage?? No a disturbed man decided to commit mass murder. BTW he killed men and women.

    Feminist is a dirty word because of bullshit like this post.

    Like

  40. A teenage boy once asked me a very good question. He was taking a poll of women’s opinions. His foster mother’s reply to the question was sad but normal. He wanted to know if I thought it was a woman’s fault she got assaulted if she walked down a dark alley wearing next to nothing. His foster mother had said yes, she was asking for it. Prosecuting attorneys have long reported this is the usual response of female jurors on a rape case. Hopefully that is changing. But when he asked me that question, I told him, “If rape had anything to do with lust, there would be no co-ed beaches.” Rape, assault, attacks of any kind, have to do with the need to prove the attacker has power over the victim. That’s why rape is not a strictly man on woman situation. I had a guy put a switchblade to my throat because he didn’t think I was paying enough attention to his drunken ramblings. I used to work nights in a convenience store and had to deal with drunk men going home alone after the bars closed. I’ve also seen the fear on some very attractive men’s faces when women persisted in touching them, often several at once. Those men knew they would only be laughed at if they complained. I don’t think the problem is that men are not being raised to respect women. I think the problem is that sexual freedom is being used as an excuse. If cleavage is showing, a woman wants sex. If a man is wearing a teeshirt that shows off his abs, he wants sex. If they are drinking an alcoholic beverage, they want sex. If they like to dance in public to any kind of music, they want sex. Then when they show no interest, the attacker claims they were deliberately aroused and just lost control. The truth is they are just spoiled brats who refuse to accept no for an answer and will go to whatever lengths they think they can get away with. What they can get away with is up to the victim. If somebody pulls a gun on me, I might not argue too much, at least until I got chance to take it away from them. The guy with the switchblade got my hand between my throat and his blade until he got interrupted by someone coming in the room. When someone touched me “inappropriately”, I didn’t worry about where we were or who was around me. They discovered it wasn’t smart to grope a stranger. When I was nearly killed because the girl driving the car I was in got struck by her fiance and lost control of the car, I told him I’d rip his head off if he touched her again in my presence. A lot of abused and assaulted people I have spoken to could not grasp the concept of refusing to be a victim. I’ve been attacked by men and women both, but I never learned fear. I won’t be victimized.

    Like

  41. Reading this made me wonder what type of person you are to begin with to be accommodated with so much triviality in your life. It is because you are looking for an excuse to have men be the idol of your life’s struggles. Indeed, you fancy yourself a victim by the hands of people and people are definitely cruel at times no doubt. I must say though who ever wrote this subjected men to being the epitome of perversion, arrogance, and barbarism. Here is my response to this smart girl deemed by her boyfriend who qualifies to determine smart from stupid. Me, personally, I don’t like clubbing. I find the people who partake in those types of activities usually collective in the stupidity range, and from experience typically that is what surrounds that environment if you go sober and clear headed. So I instead for example would prefer something like a library. People mind their business and usually you might even have the opportunity to have a casual conversation. It would be very rare for someone to offer you a drink at the library or have your boyfriend explain to the fellas how that booty goes low. Do you see where I’m going with this? Both men and women don’t probably go the places you do thinking they are going to find their wholesome better half. Men go with the intention that with a bit of courage and alcohol they might find a one time tramp. They do not go seeking intelligence, modesty, or even honesty. Here is the best part, women go for the same exact reason but at the very least, it can’t be with just any stud. They have better standards than that right? Your post tells responds a yes to me, good. Your boyfriends were right about one thing, you’re not that smart. They deceived you and never looked at you in anyway other then contraception. They never saw the mother of their children or spending their future with you, you were tossed aside because they knew you lacked the judgement to determine what type of men they were. Uptil you finally met one more dimwitted to conclude you are a smart girl, and not worthy of being tossed. The environment you have invested your precious time into is riddled with people who share the ideology of ” we’re just here to get laid ” , and someone who wants to be the rebel among these people yet coincide with them isn’t very smart when there are people who actually share good intentions, which probably don’t interest you to begin with. These are all your decisions reflecting their outcomes and your excuses blanketing them. People, men and women are subject to being victimized not only by civilians but the government, the general population is out to get you, that’s right. So stop doing stupid shit and find the appropriate things to spend your time doing rather drinking so often and worrying about every other boyfriend you have. Women are equally as stupid as men. There is no difference to me, just a bunch of stupid people in this world that are visible all around. Act like a girl someone would want as their wife, maybe you would be treated in such a way. Being yourself isn’t working for you obviously, the truth.

    Like

  42. That is exactly the situation for us. Everyday, it is not just a fight within ourselves on the choice of being me or being what another wants me to be; but also a fight against the society that doesn’t want me to be me. People only see a woman, not human; as if the word human excludes us altogether .

    Liked by 1 person

  43. Spinning for Difficulty [you don’t have a “reply” button to your comment; turns out, that’s very appropriate], now I understand why everybody ignores your comments.

    #YesAllWhites is an idiotic analogy (I can’t believe I need to argue this point), because Whites have never been victimised as a group, your personal experience notwithstanding; I am aware that the author of this blog is describing her own experience, but based on the STUPENDOUS number of positive responses by women to #YesAllWomen, based on the knee-jerk-defensiveness displayed by men like you, my own experience (call me subjective), the history (ancient and, alas, contemporary) of most societies on this planet (call me a bookworm), I tend to agree.

    Please have the courage to pull your head out of … the sand and look at the bloody numbers: How many white presidents in the history of the US? How many white senators? How many whites in the Supreme Court? How many whites LYNCHED, for chrissake? How many white SLAVES in the history of the United States (or pretty much anywhere else for that matter)?

    Now, if you choose to ignore the statistics (quoting again: “1 out of 10 victims of sexual assault is a man; 9 out of 10 victims of sexual assault are women”), that’s fine, except that also means you don’t have an argument, you just have an opinion. Do I actually need to point out the definitions of these terms to you?

    Like

    1. “…#YesAllWhites is an idiotic analogy (I can’t believe I need to argue this point), because Whites have never been victimised as a group…”

      Neither have women. That is the whole point. ALL of the negative experiences she describes are experienced by men as well, or are perpetrated by women as well, or have some male equivalent.

      And many of the things she describes are not even examples of suffering or oppression or negative attitudes at all. Some of them are actually examples of female privilege.

      To be *victimised as a group* women would have to be singled out and ONLY women treated that way. But as we all know men are raped, men are mugged, men are treated like shit by their partners, men are pressured to conform to restrictive gender roles etc etc etc etc etc… So there is no specific victimisation of women going on.

      Just talking about how unfair life is as a woman is NOT the same as life actually BEING unfair for a woman. If I make a list of all the Labradors which are abused by their owners that does not mean Labradors are being victimised and Spaniels live privileged lives. It just means I am ignoring all the cases where Spaniels are abused.

      The comparison to racism (#YesAllWhites) is a valid one. And you attempt to justify your sexism with crime statistics is as flawed as trying to justify racist attitudes and hate speech with crime statistics.

      Where I lived black people were statistically responsible for more street crimes than white people. This is the case in many cities around the world. As a white person I was more in danger of being mugged by black people than by white people.

      But we (hopefully) all agree that it would be offensive and racist for me to construct a threat narrative about black people based on those statistics, mixed with my experiences of being mugged by a black person and my fear of it happening again…. can we agree on that?

      Therefore #YesAllWhites is an abhorrent concept, even when black people REALLY ARE statistically more likely to commit crimes. It is abhorrent because we understand there are social/ economic/ political reasons for this. To try and build ‘solidarity’ among whites, based on stirring up their fear of blacks is to stir up racial division and racial hatred.

      Why should gender be any different to race?

      The same thing should apply to #YesAllWomen and any blog posts trying to build up ‘solidarity’ among women (or among feminists), based on their fear of men. It is also an example of trying to stir up gender division and hatred of men.

      The only acceptable hash tag would be #YesAllVictims and a blog post about how worried men AND women (or blacks AND whites) can be about being the victims of crime or being in a bad relationship or whatever.

      I’m sorry but either you believe in gender and racial equality or you don’t. You clearly don’t. Your attempts to justify your views are just digging you into a bigger hole.

      Like

      1. RE “Neither have women.”

        ‘British and American Natural Law philosophers (such as Thomas Hobbes) followed Aristotle and Aquinas in defending slavery and the subjugation of women.

        Natural Law philosophers proclaimed that “common sense” and “Nature” were absolutely united in defending slavery and the subjugation of women. The “inner nature” of women proved they could not be treated as equals. The “inner nature” of black slaves was animal and not human at all.’

        Robert A. Morey. 2010. “The Bible, Natural Theology and Natural Law: Conflict Or Compromise?” Xulon Press.

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      2. Your claim: Women as a group have been victimised

        Your argument: Throughout history some people have viewed or even treated women as lesser beings compared to men.

        What you fail to mention: Throughout history some people have treated men that way too.

        What you also fail to mention: Throughout history many women have defined themselves as unequal or ‘lesser’ to men – especially when it comes to issues of manual labour, fighting wars, resolving disputes, enforcing laws, carrying heavy items, mowing the lawn, stepping in puddles or surviving a sinking ship.

        Dictionary definition of victimise: single (someone) out for cruel or unjust treatment

        Have women been singled out for cruel or unjust treatment? Y/N?

        Historically speaking which group has been enslaved the most and forced to do manual labour, fight wars, build railroads, get press ganged into the navy etc …… men or women?

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  44. Thank you for writing this…more women should. What is horrible is that you felt the fear to write it, and I, on the other side of the world in Australia, like other Australian women feel what you so eloquently expressed. It is just a shame to see so many haters and trolls responding to your blog on such a pertinent issue. These faceless few, will be overcome with the faces of many,

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  45. Spinning ad nauseam:

    >Your claim: Women as a group have been victimised

    Yes. As a group. And also, true for Present too, not just in the Past.

    >Your argument: Throughout history some people have viewed or even treated women as lesser beings compared to men.

    Not my argument. This is a FACT of history. Do you understand the difference between fact and argument?

    >What you fail to mention: Throughout history some people have treated men that way too.

    Not because they were men. Because they were Black, Gypsy, Jew, Armenian, Tutsi, Native Americans, need I go on?

    >What you also fail to mention: Throughout history many women have defined themselves as unequal or ‘lesser’ to men – especially when it comes to issues of manual labour, fighting wars, resolving disputes, enforcing laws, carrying heavy items, mowing the lawn, stepping in puddles or surviving a sinking ship.

    You’re grouping together apples and oranges: In some of these cases the “can/can’t do” were defined BY men FOR women in laws written BY men. For other items, I cannot begin to comment on how frustrated you (personally) must be (stepping in puddles?!?)

    >Dictionary definition of victimise: single (someone) out for cruel or unjust treatment

    Read the definition again. It says “single out”. Women have been singled out as 1 group. Men haven’t. It’s that simple.

    >Have women been singled out for cruel or unjust treatment? Y/N?
    Yes

    >Historically speaking which group has been enslaved the most and forced to do manual labour, fight wars, build railroads, get press ganged into the navy etc …… men or women?

    False dichotomy: this is equivalent to complaining that “White men were singled out for discrimination by not allowing black people in the Army up to WW2”.

    The selection for the above tasks was not done based on gender “You’re a man, you have to do X” but rather on “You’re poor, not educated, don’t have better prospects anyway”. Since women were delegated to the home belonging to the father or husband where they were supposed to watch over the household and pour out babies, nobody bothered to consider them for other tasks for which they were not deemed qualified for BY men, anyway.

    Like

    1. OK so we both agree that you are claiming the group ‘women’ have been victimised by the group ‘men’ (a situation which continues to this day).

      This is your claim:

      Victims = women
      Victimisers = men

      “…Not my argument. This is a FACT of history. Do you understand the difference between fact and argument?…”

      Yes I do. A ‘fact’ is something which is verifiably true. An ‘argument’ is a claim which is backed up by reason and evidence.

      And you are presenting neither. You are simply asserting your views without presenting any argument or facts or evidence or anything.

      For your assertion to be true and valid men CANNOT suffer the same (or equivalent) forms of victimisation as women…… not if they are the victimisers. Victimisers cannot also be victims, by definition.

      But when you look at history you find men have always suffered exactly the same (or equivalent) forms of oppression as women. When two groups suffer the SAME forms of oppression you cannot logically define one as ‘victim’ and the other as ‘victimiser’.

      And while a lot of what men and women have suffered is genuine oppression, a lot of it is just hardships associated with surviving. Feminists like yourself focus on the hardships faced by women through the ages and disregard the equivalent hardships faced by men so that you can construct a victim narrative (a sob story) about women.

      Feminists say women were ‘forced’ to work in the home, while implying that men were somehow ‘free’ to work down mines or in shipyards.

      This is psychological manipulation. Men were / are no more free than women… and often men were / are a lot LESS free than women.

      The truth is EVERYBODY is forced to find resources, shelter, warm meals, clothes etc if they want to stay alive. And the traditional gender roles represent a division of labour between men and women in order to get those resources and survive (and reproduce successfully). The ‘oppression’ (having to do work inside or outside the home) comes from nature itself (the need to survive), not from men. Traditional gender roles were a SOLUTION to the problem of how to survive in a world without much technology were manual labour was still the way most things got done.

      If you are saying traditional gender roles oppressed women and benefited men that means you are saying women WANTED to do all the manual labour jobs that men did, but that men prevented them from doing so because they felt manual labour was a ‘male privilege’.

      That is completely insane. It is ‘logic’ like this which makes feminism’s idea of ‘male oppression’ the gender equivalent of the flat earth theory.

      Ww all know that whenever there is a choice between manual labour and comfortable indoor work THE VAST MAJORITY of people (men and women) choose non-manual labour jobs, or would prefer to do those jobs given the choice. In general women (and children) only do traditional ‘men’s work’ if that culture is poor and really struggling struggling to survive – ie desperate! But as soon as they develop enough technology and prosperity the women and children are let off having to do manual jobs (they can hang around at home), leaving only the men to do them. After a few more centuries of progress men finally get to avoid manual labour too – but only when machines are available (and men are still expected to operate those machines).

      So we can see that in the escape from manual labour women and children escape first…. and men escape last. How is this ‘male victimisation of women’?

      Just saying women’s gender roles throughout history have been ‘oppressive’ does not make it true. You have to PROVE it ….. and the only way to do that is to look at men’s gender roles from the same period in history and ask yourself – which gender is expected to do the majority of the dangerous, strenuous, exhausting, smelly, unhealthy, traumatic, dirty, unpleasant work in society? The answer is always men. The ‘male oppression’ theory would only be valid if throughout history men had stayed in the home and forced women to work down the mines, build the roads, fight the wars, build and clean the sewers and plough the fields.

      As for the other sort of oppression (the type which is more than just the hardships of survival)….

      Literally millions of men have been brutally enslaved and treated as livestock throughout history, so you cannot honestly claim (a) the group ‘men’ are victimisers (b) the group ‘women’ are victims of the group ‘men’.

      This is basic Venn Diagram style logic.

      What you’re saying is no different to a racist saying “White people are victimised by black people”. While it’s true that many white people ARE the victims of crimes committed by black people it is incorrect to group all whites and all blacks together in that way. The more complex truth is that plenty of black people DO NOT commit crimes against white people, and many help to enforce the laws and protect white people from crimes. Also white people often commit crimes against black people. So the claim “White people are victimised by black people” is invalid.

      Again, this is all basic Venn Diagram style logic.

      When racism was more socially acceptable you probably COULD get away with saying in a public forum that “whites are victims and blacks are criminals”. But today that is called hate speech/ racism/ being offensive.

      But, sadly, it is still socially acceptable to discuss the group ‘men’ in the same way that racists talk about the group ‘blacks’ ….. ie as a single unified group who all share the same negative attributes.

      (me) “….Throughout history some people have treated men that way too…”

      (you) “…. Not because they were men. Because they were Black, Gypsy, Jew, Armenian, Tutsi, Native Americans, need I go on?…”

      Your answer proves mu point. You admit that denigrating or persecuting people based on a grouping is wrong…. except when that grouping is ‘men’ which (according to you) is fair game for denigration and persecution.

      Here is your logic in crude terms:

      Saying “all blacks are scum” is an absurd and offensive generalisation.
      Saying “all jews are scum” is an absurd and offensive generalisation.
      Saying “all Spaniards are scum” is an absurd and offensive generalisation.
      Saying “all gingers are scum” is an absurd and offensive generalisation.
      Saying “all women are scum” is an absurd and offensive generalisation.
      Saying “all jazz pianists are scum” is an absurd and offensive generalisation.
      Saying “all men are scum” is a perfectly acceptable generalisation.

      All of these examples are totally unfair (and thus morally offensive) ways to describe the group in question.

      Why is the group ‘men’ any different to any other group in society? Surely, if it is wrong to generalise about other groups and portray them negatively, why is it OK to do it to the group ‘men’.

      I mean… Germans did some pretty bad things last century… why shouldn’t we go around saying Germans are oppressors?

      Are you starting to see how hateful and offensive your feminist views actually are when you think about them rationally?

      Do you see how much we are conditioned as a society to just accept hate speech when it is directed at the group ‘men’?

      “…Women have been singled out as 1 group. Men haven’t. It’s that simple….”

      That is such a completely insane claim. What you REALLY mean is that when men are singled out and oppressed you choose to deny it or ignore it.

      If WOMEN had been press ganged into joining the navy, or forced to fight wars you would call that oppression of women. If society (including men) had expected WOMEN to work do all the manual labour and all the shitty dangerous jobs throughout history you would call that oppression of women.

      If MEN had stayed indoors and expected the women to mine all the coal, build the roads, chop all the firewood, lay all the railroad tracks and generally run society’s infrastructure you would call that male privilege. If MEN dressed in frivolous clothes and had long nails and expected women to carry their bags you would call that male privilege ….. And so on.

      This is your view of history:

      The hardships and oppression endured by men = not worth discussing
      The hardships and oppression endured by women = a very important issue!

      The privileges and benefits enjoyed by women = not worth discussing
      The privileges and benefits enjoyed by men = a very important issue!

      Your attitude is IN ITSELF a perfect example of somebody singling out men as a group (and defining their hardships and oppression as not important, relative to women’s hardships and oppression). Oh, the irony!

      (me) “…. Have women been singled out for cruel or unjust treatment? Y/N?…”

      (you) ‘…Yes…”

      Please give some examples.

      (me) “…. Historically speaking which group has been enslaved the most and forced to do manual labour, fight wars, build railroads, get press ganged into the navy etc …… men or women?…”

      (you) “…. The selection for the above tasks was not done based on gender …… Since women were delegated to the home belonging to the father or husband where they were supposed to watch over the household and pour out babies, nobody bothered to consider them for other tasks for which they were not deemed qualified for BY men, anyway…”

      You’re evading the question. You’re claiming women are victimised by men, but when I ask you which gender has been enslaved the most – and the most brutally – you cannot answer because (as we all know) the answer is men.

      Traditional gender roles have always meant men end up working dangerous and gruelling jobs while their wives stay in and around the home…… how on earth does that fit with your theory of ‘male oppression of women’?

      Given the choice which would YOU rather do (a) stay around the home (b) get press ganged into the navy or build a railroad by hand or go and fight in the trenches?

      If men are always the ones doing the dangerous, exhausting, dirty, traumatising jobs while the women enjoy relative comfort and security how can that be evidence female victimisation by men? Please explain yourself.

      I think if a man drowned himself in the sea in front of a woman sunbathing you would call that ‘oppression of women’ LOL

      You seem to be suffering from what is known as a ‘male power fantasy’. Feminism itself is a male power fantasy.

      I think your identity is based on the idea that men are all powerful, totally in control and totally dominant….. and that women are weak, stupid and pathetic creatures at the mercy of these all powerful men!

      This is why you insist men are in charge even when it’s the women who always seem to end up getting the best deal 😉

      The idea that women are NOT being oppressed by powerful men appalls you, because the idea that women are actually just as smart, strong, clever, resourceful, manipulative and wilful as men appalls you.

      Feminism allows you to claim male power and male dominance over women, but at the same time it allows you to SACRIFICE your male power to SERVE women. This makes you come across as VIRTUOUS as well as powerful and dominant. It’s the best of both worlds……. you’re still claiming men are better than women, but – as a feminist – you can claim to be on women’s side too. You are “superman” 😉

      And of course ‘superman’ is the ultimate traditional ‘patriarchal’ male role model. A strong, dutiful, protector of the weak and vulnerable in society.

      I suggest you look deeper into feminist ‘threat narratives’ and see how they are exactly the same as all other threat narratives throughout history….

      If THIS VIDEO doesn’t make you feel uncomfortable about promoting a male threat narrative, then you are probably beyond help 😦

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      1. Spinning your own yarn ad nauseam

        I’m giving you up as a lost cause because your debating style is (and I have chosen the qualifier very carefully) revolting.

        You say:

        “Yes I do. A ‘fact’ is something which is verifiably true. An ‘argument’ is a claim which is backed up by reason and evidence.

        And you are presenting neither. You are simply asserting your views without presenting any argument or facts or evidence or anything.”

        I have presented both my arguments (against your claims) and the facts (1. statistics from a national organization tasked with collecting the relevant data, which anybody can verify for themselves; 2. the legislative framework within which gender roles have been defined). You have engaged with neither.

        More distastefully, you twist my arguments and even put words in my mouth that bear no relation with what I’ve said in this thread.

        You have done what you accuse me of doing “simply asserting your views without presenting any […] facts or evidence”. (Normally, I would expect people to understand that linking to a YouTube video is neither providing evidence or facts; I don’t expect you to understand that because I see you are very comfortable ignoring anything that doesn’t fit in your world-view).

        This paragraph is for anybody who bothered to read all that was posted in the comments thread; I sincerely regret you had to waste your time, because I don’t think reading my comments has given you much new information on the issue, and each of my comments occasioned another torrent of self-indulging verbal diarrhea from Spinning for Difficulty. This is the reason I have decided to stop here. It is safe to assume that Spinning will have another long reply (to my comment or others’); I wouldn’t waste any more of my time.

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      2. You are claiming the group ‘women’ are (and have been historically) oppressed by the group ‘men’.

        I have explained in very simple terms why this cannot logically be the case.

        Your studies are irrelevant. They are just you trying to justify your hate speech (like a racist white person telling me about studies which show that black crime is higher than white crime in the inner cities – therefore “whites are victims who are being oppressed by blacks”.)

        As I already explained, you might think you are somehow defending women from ‘evil patriarchal men’ but what you’re actually doing is defining women as inferior to men.

        You asserted that women have been singled out for unjust or cruel treatment, and yet when I ask for some examples you could not provide any.

        When you look at gender roles throughout history men are the ones doing all the ‘dirty work’ whether it’s building the infrastructure or obtaining resources or fighting wars. In just about every case women have the enviable role, relative to the men.

        For most of history there was very little in the way of medicine, resources were scarce and there were no air ambulances or intensive care units. There was also very little in the way of safety equipment or even adequate protective clothing. Whoever was doing manual labour was literally putting their lives/ health at risk every second. And it was always the men.

        Your idea of female oppression seem to be based on some weird image of housewives getting terribly bored ‘stuck indoors’. Well, that was not the case as being a housewife before mod cons and convenience foods involved plenty of manual labour itself. And in any case being bored is a sign of privilege, not oppression!

        Nobody is denying terrible hardships and oppression has been suffered by women though the ages, but what you are doing is ignoring all the hardships and oppression suffered by men ….. or worse you are defining men’s hardships and oppression as a form of ‘male privilege’.

        Feminists always go on about how women were ‘forced’ to stay in the home but they forget to mention that men were ‘forced’ to go to work. If men stopped going to work the family would starve and they could would not be able to pay the rent.

        Whenever feminists talk about female oppression they never offer an alternative gender role which would have suited women better….. that’s because there never was one.

        Female gender roles throughout history may not seem ideal from our privileged perspective living in the 21st century… but they were the best possible deal for women at the time. And that is presumably why women defined and negotiated those roles for themselves! That’s right, women chose to define their gender roles that way because it was the best deal for them given the circumstances (lack of technology etc). Women were NOT objects manipulated by men as you seem to want to define them.

        I have shown you examples of ‘threat narratives’ throughout history which result in the exact same twisted world view as feminism’s threat narrative. Your silence on this issue speaks volumes.

        At one time (not so long ago) the prevailing world view was that white people were vulnerable to the threat posed by the ‘savage and uncivilised’ blacks who were always lurking around every street corner ready to assault, steal or rape. The prevailing narrative was that whites were the innocent victims and blacks were the guilty victimisers.

        All you are doing is repeating the exact same threat narrative, only instead of directing it towards the group ‘blacks’ you are directing it towards the group ‘men’.

        Did you watch the video I linked in my last comment?

        Do you still think your ‘threat narrative’ about men is justified?

        “…I sincerely regret you had to waste your time, because I don’t think reading my comments has given you much new information on the issue, and each of my comments occasioned another torrent of self-indulging verbal diarrhea from Spinning for Difficulty. ….”

        Yes, yes. You are just asserting your dominance and trying to shame me and belittle me. Thank you for putting me in my place, sir.

        As I have already pointed out your world views are based on a ‘male power fantasy’.

        Your ‘white knight’ crusade to defend women’s honour is your way of maintaining (at least in your own mind) the idea of male superiority and power over women, and reinforcing the idea that women are weak, inept, victims at the mercy of strong powerful men.

        Well, the fact is they are not. Women are (and always have been) strong, resourceful, intelligent and wilful 🙂

        Your view of women as victims who cannot even negotiate their own gender roles or gender identity is demeaning to women.

        Men have their closest and most intimate relationships with women. Therefore the only way the group ‘men’ can possibly victimise and oppress the group ‘women’ is if men are sociopaths. For this reason alone I find your claim that men have victimised and oppressed women (their wives, daughters, sisters, mothers etc) throughout history to be insulting to men.

        I think our exchanges have been been enlightening, if a little depressing.

        Like

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